At least bring common sense to the table
Part 1
Published on November 1, 2011 By BoobzTwo In Ethics

Personally I like the Book of Genesis as it makes an interesting read if one is into strange fantasy.  In The beginning there was either nothing or something depending on your point of view. It is strange but let’s take a look at the nothing concept first:
 
DAY 1: In The beginning there was nothing but darkness and out of the darkness came the One God who always was … in the darkness? Well eventually God became tired (?) of the darkness after however long and decided to have a go at empire building. God created the heavens and the earth from the dark nothingness. But the earth was without form however spiritually He was still able to ‘hover’ above the surface of the waters of the formless earth, some trick there. So God brought light into existence and managed to separate it from the dark somehow all the while wondering what the “????” had made Him live in the dark sooo long (at least the first half of infinity anyway).
 
DAY 2: This whole day was spent making Heaven to separate the waters above from the waters below. I would think that omnipotent and all-knowing could have made this whole six day process happen pronto like. As concerns the all-knowing part … why bother when you already know you will be destroying your creations anyway??? As a curiosity, I wonder where Heaven is supposed to be besides in the minds of the blind.
 
DAY 3: God then proceeded to gather all the water below heaven into one place so there could be land but is vague on why this displaced water didn’t flow back where it was happy. This must have been relatively easy though because there was still time on the third day to seed the entire flat earth with fruit bearing trees and grains.
 
DAY 4: God forgot he had already created light on DAY 1 but He created the stars anyway and placed them in Heaven so the sheeple to come could discern day from night and tell time.  Then He put the Sun and moon in the sky at the exact right distance for human life (so far unknown) to flourish.
 
DAY 5: God populated the earth with every living flying and swimming organism able to claim the breath of life. Now it might be pointed out here that countless animals have come and gone as well as whole species so this day I think was completely wasted or at best quite unsuccessful.
 
DAY 6: Here God populated the earth with all the animals and crawly things that were to exist??? This is where we come in, the sheeple. Lastly and I suppose this is where the problems creep in because he was so tired by now … He created man from the dirt and woman from man and gave them dominion over all other life on earth. How could they be given dominion over other people as there were no others?
 
DAY 7: God the all-powerful and all-knowing had to rest on the Sabbath to recover His weariness from creating everything from nothing out of the darkness of nothingness. Oh did I mention that in time because God was so exhausted from what should have been a finger snap, that he would have put to death anyone who is bold enough to work on Sunday, go figure. As we are just into Genesis part 2 of 50 … there is quite a bit to cover still, but I thought people would like to know how they and the entire Universe came into being is all. These are the only facts and only the facts, so help me God.


Comments (Page 2)
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on Jun 07, 2012

Jythier
The question you need to be asking is, what do real or imagined cats have to do with an real or imagined God (s)?
That’s better, enough with the silly meaningless nonsense. I can prove a cat exists in a NY minute and your faith or belief just aren’t needed or required … doesn’t work the other way.

According to religious folk there is only one god (depends who you ask though) so where is the confusion??? You would be better informed if you actually read some scientific literature as opposed to spouting theological talking points. In effect, you are trying to tell me that the smarter we get as a species … the dumber we actually become, get a life. I really don’t expect you to believe anything because you have already told me you believe in ‘empty space’ which means your mind is already impervious to reality. Whenever you are handed all the answers to every question dictated to you by who knows who, are not permitted to question one single word (pain of hell, what else), are expressly forbidden to request proof or investigate any other possibilities (yea, hell x 2) and cannot have any opinions that aren’t sanctioned and dictated to you by your betters. Alarm bells galore here!!!

Jythier
Oh okay. Enjoy your religion (???). Eventually you will die, and end up in intense pain for all eternity. And that's going to suck. My thought was always, well, if I die and nothing happens, that's all fine [Is that so???]. If I die and I'm going to be judged by God, I might want to examine the evidence of this God just a little bit closer and make sure. But if you're sure, then I guess we're done here.

Well this is usually the last card pulled out whenever irrational people try to rationalize their beliefs and cannot … simply because they are irrational WTF??? I don’t know what you think is so good about an eternity in heaven anyway unless basking in his glory forever takes on new meaning … forever ever! Hope you prove stronger than many of his first perfect mystical creations were, because you wouldn’t want a seat waiting for you next to me. It is difficult to play with the absurdity; but I guess I would acclimate to the pain way before you begin un-basking (that means think for yourself) and that brings Satan to mind and the unpleasant surprises for those with merely flawed human faith, down the road … We never even got started, not on an honest level anyway.

 

on Jun 07, 2012

lulapilgrim
Atheists must be shown before they believe, so they say. But that's not entirely true. Do you believe gravity exists? Of course you do, even though you've never seen it and some scientists have called gravitation, the mystery of mysteries [not real scientists]. I'm sure you have a very intelligent answer when I ask what is the law of gravity. [I do] Gravity is but one of a thousand things taken upon faith by famous scientists [name ONE].
A joke right; Lula if you believe in gravity and I believe in gravity then what is there to prove and who are we supposed to prove it to??? Ok is it to be one at a time or can we group them together in bunches to speed this up?

I typed the word ‘Gravitation’ into Wiki and this is the first paragraph (what confusion???) that popped up and this will do nicely for me:

Gravitation, or gravity, is a natural phenomenon by which physical bodies attract with a force proportional to their masses. Gravitation is most familiar as the agent that gives weight to objects with mass and causes them to fall to the ground when dropped. Gravitation causes dispersed matter to coalesce, and coalesced matter to remain intact, thus accounting for the existence of the Earth, the Sun, and most of the macroscopic objects in the universe.

Next please!!!

on Jun 07, 2012

lulapilgrim
GFT and her UTUBE video friend take the Book of Genesis. They read but they do not read. They see words. Their head is in a whirl. They turn the page. There is nothing. It means nothing. Nothing is anything. There isn't anything that means anything. They look at the beginning. They look at the end. There is no beginning at the beginning, either. They think there is no beginning and on and on and on......
If this makes sense to someone not already in lala-land, please inform me??? Come on now; Step one: prove that god exists so I can have something to actually believe in, step two: everything else ... but you cannot even begin to accomplish #1 until you have been brainwashed with the nonsense in #2. This is purely circular logic and it is intellectually dishonest.

on Jun 07, 2012

GirlFriendTess
Hello Lula, I see you haven't changed either. I just don't believe in god ... assume whatever else you like.

I don't have to assume anything...I'm just going by what you've written here.

GirlFriendTess
If there is any wonder why there is confusion between the scientific and religious proponents, this clip amply shows why. What could you expect when trying to compare real apples to invisible oranges so to speak, hahaha. This is a scientific view trying to comply with creation.

No, only minutes into this video proves it is not the scientific view trying to comply with the Creation account in Genesis. 

For example, Take the opening verses of Genesis. What happened on Day One?

"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth." 

Look at that! Reading Scripture just as it is even though it gives us a bare outline, we must accept a few things....

1---that Almighty God tells us that He created the Earth first..three days before the sun, moon, and stars which do not appear until the Fourth Day.....but that's not what modern science tells us is it? No, the Stellar Evolutionary and Big Bang concepts reject this. 

2---that the Light created on the First Day is prior to and independent of the light radiating from the sun and stars from the Fourth Day.

3---that the creation of an expansive firmament on the Second Day that rests in outer space and upon which waters rest.

Modern science dogmatically insists that the universe came into being with a "Big Bang" which originated from a cosmological "singularity" some of which, over billions of years, evolved into objects such as our Earth. Yet,  Genesis 1 teaches that the Earth appeared first before anything remotely resembling a "Big Bang" ever occurred and which after billions of years produced it. 

Which one is the real apples? 

This idea of "in the beginning" is starting to resonate with some scientists (and not just the orthodox Christian ones) who are starting to distant themselves from the "Big Bang" theory.The flaws in the BB cosmology are appearing in scientific journals. 

 

 

 

 

on Jun 07, 2012

God is real.  You'll find out soon enough.  That's the problem, see.  I've seen a cat.  I've seen God working.  I've seen what Jesus does in my life.  So I am not believing blindly, but seeing His work and reacting in the only manner that makes sense.

Continuing to cross off the truth doesn't make it less true.  It just makes me sad, because everyone should end up in heaven, with Jesus who loves you, even though you would rather not bother with facts and instead watch YouTube videos that tell you what to think...

I listen to pastor preach with my critical thinking ears on, because pastor is just a man.  I read the Bible and interpret it for myself, but it also makes sense to review what others who have come before said, so sometimes I'll use that to help me understand. 

Your entire position comes from the fact that you've been told something and now you're taking their word for it with no independent observation or thought, and that is sad.  Macroevolution leading to humans only makes sense if you eliminate God from the picture... then how could we be here?  We'll just have to make up some story that lets humans get here... we come from animals, which come from blah blah blah.  So because you have to explain it, without a creator, you make up something that sort of makes sense, like, parts of it, but doesn't really make sense when you actually try to reproduce it or even just put a little brain power into it.  Look at what goes on now and project backwards.  Species do not change into other species now, so why are we assuming they did?  The only reason - to eliminate a creator.

Look at a cell.  Just look at it.  Look at the way it works, the way the building blocks were designed.  Someone designed that.  It didn't happen by accident.  The deeper scientists look into life, the more they discover how very complicated life is.  There is no way that it could have just occurred naturally.  Never mind that though.  That's not 'fact' enough for you.

on Jun 07, 2012

Hi Lula!  Even though I almost never agree with you, I still missed you a bit!

on Jun 07, 2012

Lula, does the word parody mean anything to you, just wondering, lost your funny bone too I see, huh? I was watching a video and I remember hearing “religious folk dislike biblical humor more than anything”, now I understand better. I just don’t know of a simpler way than tell you (whomever) that I do not believe in your (their) god and therefore whatever is printed about him (her (it)) is as useful to me as teats are to a male boar. Circular logic just doesn’t work for atheists which is why religions don’t work for us either. Science is what it is and it doesn’t require your belief, your concurrence or your (or your church’s) acceptance … it is what it is. You just pick out the Catholic appeasement clause you want or one that can be manipulated to ‘justify’ some fiction or another and then you regurgitate the contents and think you actually know something??? If you want to understand science then you have to read a real science book … Not just RCC-C. Scientists just don’t publish there is all so their opinions cannot be found their either.

on Jun 07, 2012

lulapilgrim
 The OP is entitled, "A leap of faith".

Believers do not need to see God for proof and belief of His existence.

Atheists must be shown before they believe, so they say. 

lulapilgrim
Atheists must be shown before they believe, so they say. But that's not entirely true. Do you believe gravity exists? Of course you do, even though you've never seen it and some scientists have called gravitation, the mystery of mysteries.  I'm sure you have a very intelligent answer when I ask what is the law of gravity. Gravity is but one of a thousand things taken upon faith by famous scientists.  

GirlFriendTess
A joke right; Lula if you believe in gravity and I believe in gravity then what is there to prove and who are we supposed to prove it to??? Ok is it to be one at a time or can we group them together in bunches to speed this up?
.

Oh c'mon GFTess. 

My point stands. Even you must believe things by faith. I'm just pointing out that you (and I and all of us) believe gravity exists upon faith...not becasue you ( we) have seen gravity. 

You believe gravity exists upon faith in whom? Faith in scientists and what they have told you about gravity  including its definition. 

lulapilgrim
I'm sure you have a very intelligent answer when I ask what is the law of gravity.

GirlFriendTess
I typed the word ‘Gravitation’ into Wiki and this is the first paragraph (what confusion???) that popped up and this will do nicely for me:

Gravitation, or gravity, is a natural phenomenon by which physical bodies attract with a force proportional to their masses. Gravitation is most familiar as the agent that gives weight to objects with mass and causes them to fall to the ground when dropped. Gravitation causes dispersed matter to coalesce, and coalesced matter to remain intact, thus accounting for the existence of the Earth, the Sun, and most of the macroscopic objects in the universe.

Told ya..you'd have a very intelligent answer. 

..............................

lulapilgrim
Atheists must be shown before they believe, so they say. But that's not entirely true. Do you believe gravity exists? Of course you do, even though you've never seen it and some scientists have called gravitation, the mystery of mysteries.

GirlFriendTess
[not real scientists].

Sir John Hershel, the discoverer of Uranus and its satellites called gravitation, the "mystery of mysteries". You can decide if he was a real scientist or not. 

...................................

lulapilgrim
Gravity is but one of a thousand things taken upon faith by famous scientists.  

GirlFriendTess
Next please!!!

Scientists believe Electricity exists but science does not know what electricity is in substance. 

Scientists believe Darwinian, neo-Darwinism and Stellar Evolution on faith in random chance.

..........................

A leap of faith

Concerning faith I've said this before....

God's revealed religion, the Holy Bible and Science call for belief by both faith and study. Faith proceeds all study. True Religion begins with Divine Faith that will not deceive; whereas science begins with human faith that is fallible.   It's utterly impossible to study them without accepting first principles upon faith, without faith in the respective teachers. Science and true religion begins with mysteries, truths which are not fully understood. 

Gravity and electricity are natural mysteries yet their manifestations prove their existence. 

Well, same with God. "The heavens show forth the glory of God, and the firmament declareth the works of his hands."  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

on Jun 07, 2012

GirlFriendTess
I believe in gravity then what is there to prove

Where did gravity come from? 

 

 

 

on Jun 07, 2012

Jythier
Hi Lula!  Even though I almost never agree with you, I still missed you a bit!

Hi Jythier, 

 

Great that you're posting again.  I'm finding we agree quite a bit here. 

 

Jythier
God is real.  You'll find out soon enough. 

We certainly agree on this one.

Jythier
Look at a cell.  Just look at it.  Look at the way it works, the way the building blocks were designed.  Someone designed that.  It didn't happen by accident.  The deeper scientists look into life, the more they discover how very complicated life is.  There is no way that it could have just occurred naturally.  Never mind that though.  That's not 'fact' enough for you.

Bingo on this one too.

Atheism is a denial of the ultimate cause and designer of things, including the law of our being; including the law of gravity. 

 

 

on Jun 07, 2012

Ok, let's try this religious style, the Lula method for mass confusion, hahaha.

Jythier
God is real. You'll find out soon enough. That's the problem, see. I've seen a cat. I've seen God working. I've seen what Jesus does in my life. So I am not believing blindly, but seeing His work and reacting in the only manner that makes sense.
If god is real quit harping on it an prove it. Besides you have no ability (seemingly) to tell if your visitations were from god or satan because you would be clueless … was that not his proposed purpose. First satan corrupted himself and many others … second satan corrupt the second of god’s creation (Adam) at a time when life was perfect and worry free so unlike today.  But of course, you would just know wouldn’t you?

I won't find anything out ... because I will be dead, geese. I have seen a cat or two but I haven't seen your chosen deity ... so am I supposed to believe everything you do because we both agree that cats really exist, get real. Until you have a one-on-one with the man himself and he updates your memory banks … you don’t know squat about god, just what you have been told. (see above comment)

Jythier
Continuing to cross off the truth doesn't make it less true. It just makes me sad, because everyone should end up in heaven, with Jesus who loves you, even though you would rather not bother with facts and instead watch YouTube videos that tell you what to think...
Just so!!! My guess is that the only thing here that could possible sadden a staunch believer such as yourself, is your inability to acquire another convert to your madness. Nothing wrong with being mad mind you, I just do not wish to play any more theological games which just denigrate the beauty and grandeur of the universe and the life within it.

Jythier
Your entire position comes from the fact that you've been told something and now you're taking their word for it with no independent observation or thought, and that is sad.
You have no idea whatsoever where, how, why  or through what medium I became convinced ... but you don't care, you are just going to tell me that too. I have left some clues along the way but they apparently were over your head so what's a girl supposed to do ... besides laugh.

Jythier
Macroevolution leading to humans only makes sense if you eliminate God from the picture... then how could we be here?
By god I think you got it at last! And it is called evolution.

Jythier
So because you have to explain it, without a creator, you make up something that sort of makes sense, like, parts of it, but doesn't really make sense when you actually try to reproduce it or even just put a little brain power into it.
You will never get it I suppose. There are no gods and thus no creator, but still I would like some idea of our past … and I go to science for real explanations. It is either that or I could pull it all out of my arse like many mystical proponents prefer to do.  Brain power and religion are at odds … all you have to do is suck it all up and believe it to your core and have a good memory … what is proof in the face of such utter nonsense.

Jythier
Look at what goes on now and project backwards.
Not on my to-do list. Unlike religions that can do nothing but revisit the ancient past for their ‘expertise’, I prefer to look ahead and what I see is difficulties for monotheism because the better the sciences get, the smaller the space for god gets … and it is not going to stop.

Jythier
Look at a cell. Just look at it. Look at the way it works, the way the building blocks were designed. Someone designed that. It didn't happen by accident. The deeper scientists look into life, the more they discover how very complicated life is. There is no way that it could have just occurred naturally. Never mind that though. That's not 'fact' enough for you.
You haven’t a clue what could occur naturally because you seem to be as scientifically void concerning microbiology as you are of the evolutionary process but sorry … ignorance is no longer a valid argument unless you combine it with stupidity, not with the internet and a drop or two of curiosity.

on Jun 08, 2012

GirlFriendTess
Lula, does the word parody mean anything to you, just wondering,

Where is the parody here? 

GirlFriendTess
lost your funny bone too I see, huh? I was watching a video and I remember hearing “religious folk dislike biblical humor more than anything”, now I understand better.

Where is the biblical humor here?

This is an attack that centers on the Book of Genesis, a stupendous story of God and His Divine order of Creation, of the origin of the heavens and earth, the universe, as well as plant, animal and human kind. It stands today like an intellectual and moral Rock of Gibraltar, despite intense attempts such as this one of yours to undermine it with ridiculous criticism and by scoffing at it.  

......................................................

 

GirlFriendTess
Science is what it is and it doesn’t require your belief, your concurrence or your (or your church’s) acceptance … it is what it is. You just pick out the Catholic appeasement clause you want or one that can be manipulated to ‘justify’ some fiction or another and then you regurgitate the contents and think you actually know something???

You are the one who has gone astray. The mission of Genesis, of Christianity and of the Church is to teach man spiritual things not to determine geological, biological or astrological things; that is for scientists to discover. Catholics are free to speculate on Biblical chronology as to age, as no definitive pronouncements as to a doctrine of Creation has been made ....yet. 

The things that the Church insists upon, which is found in the book of Genesis is that God made the heavens, Earth and the universe, that God made man and that He endowed him with the power of working out his own eternal destiny. 

.......................................

GirlFriendTess
Not just RCC-C. Scientists just don’t publish there is all so their opinions cannot be found their either.

The Church is the patron of science, since the more knowledge man has of nature, the more power of God becomes evident. That's what both Jythier and I have been trying to tell you. 

To know the laws of nature, and to apply the knowledge gathered has been the work of the Church's great universities and hospitals. I'll list a few Catholic scientists...Roger Bacon founder of inductive method. Schwann, founder of cell theory. Linnaeus, founder of modern biology. Lavoiser, founder of modern chemistry. Johannes Muller, founder of modern physiology. Volta in electricity. Mendel in biology, laws of heredity. Pasteur in physio-chemistry. 

on Jun 08, 2012

Awe, you guys just make this too easy which is always the result when reality meats magic. Lula, the truth of the matter is that it doesn't matter at what I think, believe or aspire to ... unless I unabashedly capitulate to your church, not your god, YOUR church??? I don’t believe anything on faith alone, but I do have a well-founded respect for expertise, human intelligence actually. 

lulapilgrim
Sir John Hershel, the discoverer of Uranus and its satellites called gravitation, the "mystery of mysteries". You can decide if he was a real scientist or not.
I am convinced that Mr. Hershel was quite knowledgeable and definitely a competent scientist, unfortunately we have more than a hundred and fifty years of additional knowledge that he didn’t have. If you wish to use such people as ‘straw men’, then consider this: “Herschel himself thought catastrophic extinction and renewal "an inadequate conception of the Creator", and by analogy with other intermediate causes "the origination of fresh species, could it ever come under our cognizance, would be found to be a natural in contradistinction to a miraculous process" And he was correct by the way. Why are you compelled to misrepresent the things when you are supposed to be preaching the truth?

lulapilgrim
Scientists believe Electricity exists but science does not know what electricity is in substance.
Ok then, I guess it is one at a time then, for at least as long as I am amused.

“Electricity is the science, engineering, technology and physical phenomena associated with the presence and flow of electric charges. Electricity gives a wide variety of well-known electrical effects, such as lightning, static electricity, electromagnetic induction and the flow of electrical current in an electrical wire. In addition, electricity permits the creation and reception of electromagnetic radiation such as radio waves.”

What is Electricity?   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci8W1ot9I5A

Personally, I was taught 'electron flow' as opposed to 'hole flow' which I later learned after years of experience that it didn't really matter. You just had to stick with whatever theory you started out with and the conclusions would be the same.

lulapilgrim
Scientists believe Darwinian, neo-Darwinism and Stellar Evolution on faith in random chance.
(Only in your dreams) I have tried to be gentle before, but you are clueless of modern evolutionary theory … and Darwin is so way in the past ... have I mentioned before that we have more than a hundred and fifty years of fine tuning ourselves and we now know a thing or two (+) that Darwin could only have dreamed of while on LSD. Gravity and electricity are not mysterious to anyone with a public library card unless you just want to plead ignorance … for which there is no excuse, today. Do you have any idea of what Hubble offers concerning the universe and knowledge about it???

 

on Jun 08, 2012

Why is microbiology relevant to humans coming from sludge?

on Jun 08, 2012

While it would certainly make this conversation a lot more worth having, I'm not going to ask you to explain why you, personally, moved from Catholicism to Atheism.  It's a very personal question and I don't know you very well.  I think it would be good for you to share, but I won't ask you to.

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