At least bring common sense to the table
Part 1
Published on November 1, 2011 By BoobzTwo In Ethics

Personally I like the Book of Genesis as it makes an interesting read if one is into strange fantasy.  In The beginning there was either nothing or something depending on your point of view. It is strange but let’s take a look at the nothing concept first:
 
DAY 1: In The beginning there was nothing but darkness and out of the darkness came the One God who always was … in the darkness? Well eventually God became tired (?) of the darkness after however long and decided to have a go at empire building. God created the heavens and the earth from the dark nothingness. But the earth was without form however spiritually He was still able to ‘hover’ above the surface of the waters of the formless earth, some trick there. So God brought light into existence and managed to separate it from the dark somehow all the while wondering what the “????” had made Him live in the dark sooo long (at least the first half of infinity anyway).
 
DAY 2: This whole day was spent making Heaven to separate the waters above from the waters below. I would think that omnipotent and all-knowing could have made this whole six day process happen pronto like. As concerns the all-knowing part … why bother when you already know you will be destroying your creations anyway??? As a curiosity, I wonder where Heaven is supposed to be besides in the minds of the blind.
 
DAY 3: God then proceeded to gather all the water below heaven into one place so there could be land but is vague on why this displaced water didn’t flow back where it was happy. This must have been relatively easy though because there was still time on the third day to seed the entire flat earth with fruit bearing trees and grains.
 
DAY 4: God forgot he had already created light on DAY 1 but He created the stars anyway and placed them in Heaven so the sheeple to come could discern day from night and tell time.  Then He put the Sun and moon in the sky at the exact right distance for human life (so far unknown) to flourish.
 
DAY 5: God populated the earth with every living flying and swimming organism able to claim the breath of life. Now it might be pointed out here that countless animals have come and gone as well as whole species so this day I think was completely wasted or at best quite unsuccessful.
 
DAY 6: Here God populated the earth with all the animals and crawly things that were to exist??? This is where we come in, the sheeple. Lastly and I suppose this is where the problems creep in because he was so tired by now … He created man from the dirt and woman from man and gave them dominion over all other life on earth. How could they be given dominion over other people as there were no others?
 
DAY 7: God the all-powerful and all-knowing had to rest on the Sabbath to recover His weariness from creating everything from nothing out of the darkness of nothingness. Oh did I mention that in time because God was so exhausted from what should have been a finger snap, that he would have put to death anyone who is bold enough to work on Sunday, go figure. As we are just into Genesis part 2 of 50 … there is quite a bit to cover still, but I thought people would like to know how they and the entire Universe came into being is all. These are the only facts and only the facts, so help me God.


Comments (Page 3)
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on Jun 08, 2012

GirlFriendTess
Mr. Hershel ........Why are you compelled to misrepresent the things when you are supposed to be preaching the truth?

Please Re-read #14, 17, 23, this time for clarity.....and then tell me exactly how I misrepresented anything about Mr. Hershel. 

.........................

lula #14

lulapilgrim


Atheists must be shown before they believe, so they say. But that's not entirely true. Do you believe gravity exists? Of course you do, even though you've never seen it and some scientists have called gravitation, the mystery of mysteries.  I'm sure you have a very intelligent answer when I ask what is the law of gravity. Gravity is but one of a thousand things taken upon faith by famous scientists.  

In # 17, You highlighted the following:

GirlFriendTess
Quoting lulapilgrim, reply 14
Atheists must be shown before they believe, so they say. But that's not entirely true. Do you believe gravity exists? Of course you do, even though you've never seen it and some scientists have called gravitation, the mystery of mysteries [not real scientists]. I'm sure you have a very intelligent answer when I ask what is the law of gravity. [I do] Gravity is but one of a thousand things taken upon faith by famous scientists [name ONE].

And so in #23 I responded: 

lulapilgrim
Sir John Hershel, the discoverer of Uranus and its satellites called gravitation, the "mystery of mysteries". You can decide if he was a real scientist or not. 

To which you accusingly reply: 

GirlFriendTess
I am convinced that Mr. Hershel was quite knowledgeable and definitely a competent scientist, unfortunately we have more than a hundred and fifty years of additional knowledge that he didn’t have. If you wish to use such people as ‘straw men’, then consider this: “Herschel himself thought catastrophic extinction and renewal "an inadequate conception of the Creator", and by analogy with other intermediate causes "the origination of fresh species, could it ever come under our cognizance, would be found to be a natural in contradistinction to a miraculous process" And he was correct by the way. Why are you compelled to misrepresent the things when you are supposed to be preaching the truth?

Again, how did I misrepresent or lie anything about Mr. Hershel?

GirlFriendTess
I believe in gravity then what is there to prove

 The questioning child and the atheist father---

"What's gravity, Papa?"

"It's a law of nature."

"Where does the law come from Papa?"

"Don't ask so many questions."  The atheist has no answer. 

.............................................................................................

GirlFriendTess
I believe in gravity then what is there to prove

 

lulapilgrim
Where did the law of gravity come from? 

For the atheist is not gravitation, the law of gravity, a "mystery of mysteries"?

 

GirlFriendTess
I am convinced that Mr. Hershel was quite knowledgeable and definitely a competent scientist, unfortunately we have more than a hundred and fifty years of additional knowledge that he didn’t have.

 Then answer, you believe in gravity, then where did the law of gravity come from?

GirlFriendTess
Gravity and electricity are not mysterious to anyone with a public library card unless you just want to plead ignorance … for which there is no excuse, today. Do you have any idea of what Hubble offers concerning the universe and knowledge about it???

Then answer,  where did the law of gravity come from? 

 

on Jun 08, 2012

You keep saying the law of gravity, Lula, but I think the question you want to ask is, "Why is mass attracted to other mass?"  If the only answer you have it, "Gravity", then you can ask, "Who made gravity?"

Cooler question though - if mass is attracted to other mass, why is the universe expanding?

on Jun 08, 2012

Jythier
Why is microbiology relevant to humans coming from sludge?
The terminology and the emphasis are always misguided whenever someone believes that they are somehow empowered with only factual knowledge (but are not even open to proof) and leads nowhere. I don’t know if there was some kind of sludge in our lineage, but this is already taking on biblical comparisons (from the dirt/water etc.) as if we have to go about this with miracles in mind. Your problem with evolution is that it takes thousands of years to accomplish small changes and billions of years for things more drastic. What could be simpler … you just declare the earth to be a few thousand years old (without a drop of evidence) and presto, evolution is out of the religious picture and it doesn’t even have to be contended with … it is just out so never mind those pesky facts science tries to slip into the discussion. Your idea of earthly things is off by a factor of ~94’000 times … and that is not a trivial error. Considering the age of the universe it becomes even more preposterous at ~270,000 times in error. We evolved from ape LIKE creatures which evolved from other creatures etc. etc. for billions of years none of which you accept just because you have a first century ‘book’ that discusses the first century world views and their fantasies.

Jythier
I think it would be good for you to share, but I won't ask you to.
This is a problem and I don't think many Christians are even aware of it. You folks spend an inordinate amount of time telling scientists and everyone else I suppose all about their motivations, their ‘real’ intentions’ and well there everything.  I made the mistake of treating all Christians as a unit (then I met Lula?) simply because they all use the same ONE book to placate their beliefs. It was no concern to me how divided Christians were (didn’t know there were over a thousand ‘sects’ though) … the same BOOK. You see, when I pick up a book with actual usable information say in math, physics, thermodynamics, plate tectonics or evolution to name a few, I don’t try and pick out the parts I like and the hell with the rest. My understanding or acceptance has nothing to do with the reality of things so I study it until I am comfortable with the principles and can safely add it to my world view.

There just isn’t any way to convince creationists that there is a real world out there, one with real things happening all the time in the present as they have all throughout our history. Real things we can sink our teeth in. I have related the reasons behind my disillusionment of monotheism in the past but that proved little more than a distraction and helped nothing. It just provided more fodder for the Christians to attack anew … after all, who was I to disagree with ‘the Church minions’ who represent god himself (in their small minds) which cannot be disagreed with or argued against period. It just doesn’t take long in this environment to realize that the fabled ‘free will’ option is only available to Christians (not Muslims or Jews or atheists) who of course have to be made to believe as the Church dictates or they too will have their free will revoked just like the rest of us. I will see if I can find some of those instances but don’t hold your breath because I will probably forget. The very concept of free will flies in the face of any dogmatic belief system because the only choices give are wholehearted capitulation or death and then hell, always the proverbial hell. I highly recommend that everyone should at least read the bible without skipping about, cover to cover (especially Christians) because that was the turning point for me and it opened my eyes just enough to allow reality to creep in. You see this should prevent picking and choosing of which particular godly words you like and dismissing the ones you don’t.

on Jun 08, 2012

So you want me to infringe on your privacy?  Please, relate or link me to where you related why you're an atheist.  Reading the Bible cover to cover doesn't really cover it, see, because that's far too general.  For example, I have read all of it and didn't come to the same conclusion as you, so I'm interested in where you are drawing that conclusion from. 

Why do you think I'm missing the real world?  Why do you assume that I'm going to think you can't disagree with fallible men?  Why do you insist we're attacking, when perhaps we're just trying to support you into the truth? 

Let's prove God exists now.  Do you know what a sociopath is?

on Jun 08, 2012

Let's take this one step further.  What is it that a sociopath lacks?  A conscience.  They don't care about what happens to other people from their actions.  But take a step back and ask another question.  Why is that wrong? 

on Jun 08, 2012

Let's take it one step further.  Perhaps your answer is 'it's not wrong'.  If so, no reason to continue.  You are a sociopath yourself.  If not, you know that it is wrong.  Perhaps your answer is it's wrong because it hurts other people, so therefore it's wrong.

Why is it wrong to hurt other people?

Is there a standard of behavior that most if not all people sort of intrinsically know about?

If so, then what made it so?

Now, take it one step further.  If we all know about this standard of behavior, and we all try to follow it, and try not to hurt our fellow human beings... why the heck is the world full of people who hurt each other and do wrong all the time?  If that's the way people just ARE, why do we have these notions of right and wrong that we can't even live up to?

on Jun 08, 2012

lulapilgrim
Then answer, where did the law of gravity come from?
Not going to play with you like this but I will answer this again for you to disbelieve. Man invented the law of gravity just because rabbits and dogs refused to do it (or maybe they didn't GAS either). I don't care what you think about electricity either but even you should be smart enough to stay away from it and how to use it constructively. Do you have any intricate understanding of how an automobile works; my guess is that you don't? But the lack of knowledge doesn't seem to be important or necessary for you to take advantage of your car. How about we subject the auto to an atomic level review just so we can drop down to the subatomic level and ask what they are made of ... just so we can prove humanity is injudicious and that everything is all about god because … people are just too stupid to walk and chew gum at the same time without celestial guidance.

Jythier
Cooler question though - if mass is attracted to other mass, why is the universe expanding?
Obviously a Google search is too much trouble and just as obviously you don't understand or believe in the big bang theory so there is no point trying in making something up because reality is unimportant to you. What good would another dismissible ridiculously ill-informed human ‘opinion’ do when reason is rejected by the very question itself.

Personally I like this question better: If your god created the universe and everything in it in its present form, why is the universe expanding at all? It just seems counterproductive for the end when all the ‘lights’ in the sky fall (a lot further) to the earth.

Most of those lights in the sky are actually galaxies many of which are immensely larger than our own. There are stars lights in the sky (like VY Canis Majoris) which is a billion times larger than our small light which itself is a million times the size of the earth. That makes this sky light a million billion times the size of the earth.

Star Sizes Comparison   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHiHFXtE0js

on Jun 08, 2012

GirlFriendTess
Quoting lulapilgrim, reply 31Then answer, where did the law of gravity come from?Not going to play with you like this but I will answer this again for you to disbelieve. Man invented the law of gravity just because rabbits and dogs refused to do it (or maybe they didn't GAS either). I don't care what you think about electricity either but even you should be smart enough to stay away from it and how to use it constructively. Do you have any intricate understanding of how an automobile works; my guess is that you don't? But the lack of knowledge doesn't seem to be important or necessary for you to take advantage of your car. How about we subject the auto to an atomic level review just so we can drop down to the subatomic level and ask what they are made of ... just so we can prove humanity is injudicious and that everything is all about god because … people are just too stupid to walk and chew gum at the same time without celestial guidance.

Quoting Jythier, reply 32Cooler question though - if mass is attracted to other mass, why is the universe expanding?Obviously a Google search is too much trouble and just as obviously you don't understand or believe in the big bang theory so there is no point trying in making something up because reality is unimportant to you. What good would another dismissible ridiculously ill-informed human ‘opinion’ do when reason is rejected by the very question itself.

Personally I like this question better: If your god created the universe and everything in it in its present form, why is the universe expanding at all? It just seems counterproductive for the end when all the ‘lights’ in the sky fall (a lot further) to the earth.

Slingshot.  Pulling them back and then... pow!  Fall to the earth.  Celestial slingshot.

on Jun 08, 2012

Don't you feel silly now?

on Jun 08, 2012

Jythier
Slingshot. Pulling them back and then... pow! Fall to the earth. Celestial slingshot.
This is why you cannot be taken seriously. And what bible passages pray tell did this 'slingshot theory’ spring from? All is honky dory as long as reality can be ignored and “god did it” is used exclusively without any explanation at all ... no matter what has to be swept under the rug. If this is your idea of a discussion, well it sure isn't mine.

on Jun 08, 2012

Jythier
Don't you feel silly now?
Not in the least ... but you should. The problem with debating a Creationist (any theologian) is that they only have one set of guidelines that everyone; believer, misbeliever and nonbeliever alike have to accept. To make things worse, then they pretend that every other issue has been resolved in god’s favor which is just gobbledygook, none have been proven godly. But it allows them to smugly sit in judgment of everyone else and pretend there is only this one last thing to discredit. Religious folk (unless patting themselves on the back) don’t try to prove anything. If they could, well they have had a couple thousand years to try and have failed at every turn. So as opposed to making their own case (god forbid) they just trash whatever they perceive as a threat (which is everything unbiblical) as if it is immaterial just because they say so. Doesn’t this shallow attitude cut off any reasonable discussion at the knees before it even starts? And when every ploy fails, they put the big guns away … and just start making things up on their own … not the life I want to live.

on Jun 08, 2012

GirlFriendTess
Lula #42, please fix your pictures or remove them.

Sorry about that.  

Very odd that the pictures come in when JU is opened with Yahoo, but not with Google.  

Anyway, the point ...I do have a religious funny bone. 

 

on Jun 08, 2012

GirlFriendTess

Quoting Jythier, reply 38Slingshot. Pulling them back and then... pow! Fall to the earth. Celestial slingshot.This is why you cannot be taken seriously. And what bible passages pray tell did this 'slingshot theory’ spring from? All is honky dory as long as reality can be ignored and “god did it” is used exclusively without any explanation at all ... no matter what has to be swept under the rug. If this is your idea of a discussion, well it sure isn't mine.

Why, pray tell, should you take that seriously, when it was so obviously a joke?  The fact that you didn't catch that only proves that you are assuming not only that you are absolutely right about everything, but also that I'm completely stupid.  I was ready to try and speak with you about why God must exist but you didn't bother answering any of my questions.  So you don't want to go down the path to enlightenment, because you have no defense on that path.  Makes sense.  Unfortunately, your assumption are incorrect.  I'm not stupid.  I'm very intelligent and I'm a critical thinker, especially about the things of God.  I don't take them directly from the pulpit without vetting them through what I know of the Bible first.  I don't take YouTube videos of preachers as gospel, either.  And while you seem to want to mock my beliefs, I at least realize that you think there's some basis to yours, though when I ask about the holes in it you go silent about it, and instead attack my beliefs instead of examining your own.  Let me assure you, I examine my own beliefs thoroughly when they are attacked by those such as you.  Does my belief not make sense?  I look at it, I examine it, and I don't find that you have made any actual arguments, but silly jokes and slander and stating that I don't know what an atheist or evolution is.  Really?  And then you post numerous videos which I can't watch which supposedly make your point.  You accuse me of the things you do - blindly following what you've seen on YouTube, yet you refuse to get on an intellectual ground with me - you just say, "Nope, you're wrong, you can't prove God exists."  Then, when I try to show you that you have no grounds on which to say he doesn't, yet there are plenty of grounds to say he does, you won't respond.

So that's the end of it, yet again.  Maybe this time I really won't be back, but I'm sure you'll end up saying something equally ludicrous yet again and I'll come out to defend my God again.  Of course, you attack Christians, but you never actually attack our God, because you have no clue who He is or what He does.  You say, 'Meet him and I'll believe you!'  Paul met him, had a whole book written about it, wrote letters about it, and you didn't believe him.  Why would you believe me?  You're being dishonest again.

on Jun 08, 2012

lulapilgrim
Quoting GirlFriendTess, reply 17

I believe in gravity then what is there to prove

lulapilgrim
Then answer, you believe in gravity, then where did the law of gravity come from?

GirlFriendTess
Not going to play with you like this but I will answer this again for you to disbelieve. Man invented the law of gravity just because rabbits and dogs refused to do it (or maybe they didn't GAS either).

Not going to play like this? Aw...but you wrote the OP waging war against Genesis and started the game (of discussion). Isn't the goal to use science and "enlightened knowledge" to prove that true religion is wrong and the Holy Bible is a "strange fantasy"?

We are at the familiar crossroads again.  Man invented the law of gravity is quite a materialistic explanation.

Because science was born as the daughter of theology and becasue science and knowledge in general will always be only a part of the greater knowledge of God, we have the answer to the child's question of the law of gravity.  

Everything in nature is the handiwork of the Creator. When we recognize a law in the universe, we do not invent it. It was there before men set foot on earth becasue God wisely placed it there. We should be humble students of nature, the created work, but the "enlightened" atheistic science establishment is short-sighted, and wants to separate itself from God, and won't recognize the Teacher, the Creator. They want to believe that we never had a Teacher or Creator at all. And so they wage war against true religion and drive out God.

 

 

 

on Jun 08, 2012

Here is how science, Geology, works with true religion and the Holy Bible....

DAY OF JESUS' CRUCIFIXION BELIEVED DETERMINED

It's been debated for years, but researchers say they now have a definitive date of the crucifixion.

Geologists investigated the 4,000-year chronology of earthquake disturbances within the uppermost 19 feet of laminated sediment of the Dead Sea to determine the exact date of Jesus' crucifixion. 
Corbis

Jesus, as described in the New Testament, was most likely crucified on Friday April 3, 33 A.D.

The latest investigation, reported in the journal International Geology Review, focused on earthquake activity at the Dead Sea, located 13 miles from Jerusalem. The Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 27, mentions that an earthquake coincided with the crucifixion:

“And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit. At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split and the tombs broke open.”

To analyze earthquake activity in the region, geologist Jefferson Williams of Supersonic Geophysical and colleagues Markus Schwab and Achim Brauer of the German Research Center for Geosciences studied three cores from the beach of the Ein Gedi Spa adjacent to the Dead Sea.

Varves, which are annual layers of deposition in the sediments, reveal that at least two major earthquakes affected the core: a widespread earthquake in 31 B.C. and an early first century seismic event that happened sometime between 26 A.D. and 36 A.D.

The latter period occurred during “the years when Pontius Pilate was procurator of Judea and when the earthquake of the Gospel of Matthew is historically constrained,” Williams said.

"The day and date of the crucifixion (Good Friday) are known with a fair degree of precision," he said. But the year has been in question.

In terms of textual clues to the date of the crucifixion, Williams quoted a Nature paper authored by Colin Humphreys and Graeme Waddington. Williams summarized their work as follows:

 

  • All four gospels and Tacitus in Annals (XV,44) agree that the crucifixion occurred when Pontius Pilate was procurator of Judea from 26-36 AD.
  • All four gospels say the crucifixion occurred on a Friday.

 

 

  • All four gospels agree that Jesus died a few hours before the beginning of the Jewish Sabbath (nightfall on a Friday).

     

     

  • The synoptic gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) indicate that Jesus died before nightfall on the 15th day of Nisan; right before the start of the Passover meal.

     

     

  • John’s gospel differs from the synoptics; apparently indicating that Jesus died before nightfall on the 14th day of Nisan.

     

When data about the Jewish calendar and astronomical calculations are factored in, a handful of possible dates result, with Friday April 3, 33 A.D. being the best match, according to the researchers.

In terms of the earthquake data alone, Williams and his team acknowledge that the seismic activity associated with the crucifixion could refer to “an earthquake that occurred sometime before or after the crucifixion and was in effect ‘borrowed’ by the author of the Gospel of Matthew, and a local earthquake between 26 and 36 A.D. that was sufficiently energetic to deform the sediments of Ein Gedi but not energetic enough to produce a still extant and extra-biblical historical record.”

“If the last possibility is true, this would mean that the report of an earthquake in the Gospel of Matthew is a type of allegory,” they write.

Williams is studying yet another possible natural happening associated with the crucifixion - darkness.

Three of the four canonical gospels report darkness from noon to 3 PM after the crucifixion. Such darkness could have been caused by a dust storm, he believes.

Williams is investigating if there are dust storm deposits in the sediments coincident with the early first century Jerusalem region earthquake.

htt
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