Being helpful as usual huh. Did I make an error???

PS - What did you think of the obnoxious dwarf?

The entire post was riddled with errors, and to list them all out would take me more time than I want to put into it, so I won't.  You're just saying the same things over and over again - I can misinterpret the Bible, and that makes it laughable.  Yes, the things you say about it are laughable, which is how any NORMAL person would see they're incorrect.

Well riddled with errors huh, so much so that you are awash with indecision on actually picking out the biggest whopper or two. Here I will make this easier for you because your computer is also disfunctional and I guess your personal bible doesn't seem to be available.

Genesis 3; The Fall

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden,

3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman.

5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden.

9 But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?”

10 He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”

11 And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from? ”

12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me — she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?” The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”

14 So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, “Cursed are you above all livestock and all wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.

15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.”

16 To the woman he said, “I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you. ”

17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’ “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life.

18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field.

19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.”

20 Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living.

21 The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them.

22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken.

24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

Compliments from The Bible Gateway.

PS; “TO the rest of mankind … not sure they were mentioned in this section but somehow we were all included, forever??? There is no mention of Lucifer, Satan or the devil in here either???”

Never? 

Never say never! Certainly not about something as important as this is! 

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I have no problem saying the same about evolution, difference is I can prove and you just believe what you are told to believe.

The emergence of civilization (not man's beginning) is generally associated with the Neolithic or the Agricultural Revolution, which occurred in various locations between 8,000 and 5,000 BCE. In the period between 800 BCE–200 BCE a series of male sages, prophets, religious reformers and philosophers (from China, India, Iran, Israel and Greece) emerged which changed the direction of civilizations. The traditions or religious myths were concocted during this time. Then we became evolutionarily impotent for the next 1,500 years. The renaissance marking the end of the Middle Ages is when the cleanup started, up to The Age of Enlightenment (Age of Reason) and the downward spiral of religious intolerance began. This is all recorded history. When a creationist enters the fray, you might as well get out your largest permanent eraser because you are in for an amazing history lesson that begins 5,007 years ago with the creation of the universe … hold on to your sox.

There doesn't need to be specific mention of them for us to understand that Lucifer possessed a serpent to deceive Eve.

Lucifer, Satan or the devil (all the same), hates God and wanted to defeat Him and so he set a trap. Knowing that God must always act justly, the devil figured he would entice them to sin and since God cannot excuse sin, God's prized human creation, made in His own image, was for nothing. With sin, the devil rules over them; they are his and not God's. 

However, God could and would and did solve the problem in justice. He humbled Himself and became a man. That allowed God to preserve His creation, pay the infinite price to redeem Adam's race, preserve His own honor as the omnipotent and omniscient Almighty God, and justly secure the eternal condemnation of the devil. Yep, as history records God did indeed do the unthinkable..He sent the Second Person of the Trinity as a man and He saved mankind.    

 

The Douay Rheims version is 

"1 Now the serpent was more cunning than any of the beasts of the earth the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Why hath God commanded you, that you should not eat of every tree of paradise?"

The devil hated the happiness of Adam and Eve and was envious that they were intended to attain everlasting happiness which he himself had forfeited. The serpent was suited for his spiteful and evil purpose and so the devil made use of it by entering into it and spoke by its mouth. The preternatural phenomenon of a serpent speaking is no  more fantastic than of demons speaking from within a human body.

 Notice the serpent is described as "he", ...the "he" denotes the serpent was the devil.

Now notice what the devil said. He didn't betray his evil intention by directly saying, eat of the fruit. No, hoping to make her question whether the prohibition to eat of the tree of knowledge was a legitimate one or if God really meant it, he asked Eve a question appearing as though he's misinformed about what God actually said.

 This invites Eve to correct him and the fatal dialogue begins. 

What should Eve have done? She ought to have either made no answer and run...or....have said, "Becasue God has willed it so. I do not ask why becasue God knows best what is good for us." 

But instead of this, Eve lets herself be drawn into a conversation with the devil, and thereby he had already gained half his object. 

Let this be a lesson for us...for the devil tempts us all the time. The Lord told us the devil is a liar and the father of lies. Father meaning the origin of lies. Therefore we must hate lies for they come from the devil. Have nothing to do with lies. God is truth and desires and loves only what is true. Stick to the truth if you wish to be a child of God. 

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Sinc ethe devil possessed the serpent and lied to and deceived man out of his happiness, there are 2 entities that are addressed in the punishment but spoken to as if they are one. 

Verse 14 describes the punishment upon the actual animal called a serpent and it serves as a historical reminder of the event for all humanity. Before its punishment the serpent was beautiful in appearance and non-threatening. Now, it has been transformed into a most degrading position, creepting and crawlling as it does. But in reality, the words apply principally to the devil and his followers. They are degraded below all other creatures..they crawl in the filth of sin. 

Verse 15 shows God's punishment on Satan himself. The Devil had hoped that once he had succeeded in separating man from GOd, man would serve him and remain under his power and rule. But instead of this, God announced his punishment would lie in being overcome by a woman, (The Blessed Virgin Mary). The "seed" of the devil are all those are born in Original Sin and remain in sin...and thus the devil creates his "seed" of antagonism through wicked men.

The "seed" of the woman is the Divine Savior who Death redeemed us from Original Sin and actual sin and from the power of Satan.

 

GFTESS, 

Back to evolution...I thought you were weary of discussing evolution. I know I am. 

ANYWAY,,,,

No you can't prove Darwin's "change beyond kind" evolution.  Do you know how really, really famous you would be if you could? No one has proven evolution.

 

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I love being Catholic. I believe by faith, right reason and common sense. 

I believe what I am told depending on the sources and only after careful study.

 

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Genesis 4: Cain and Abel 

Who documented this stuff 5007 years ago … and then they made love and had children and somehow she was ‘helped’ by god? God who so loved his pets was a meat eater and poisoned Cain’s mind so that he killed his only sibling Abel … and now there were three. God asked Cain where his brother was (the dead one) and he told god to go find him yourself. Now god hears Abel’s blood talking and he just knows. So he curses Cain and drives him from the ‘ground’, but he did lose his green thumb too. So Cain negotiated for better terms. Having killed his bro, Cain was afraid one of his parents might kill him (only two other people in existence) so god relented and put a protection spell on him so that he wouldn’t be killed himself … ever? Their parents had previously been kicked out of the garden … so wherever they had gone, Cain got kicked east from there too, and went to the land of Nod (Oz???)

Well with that nastiness out of the way, god watched Cain and his wife make love just to record the birth of Enosh who was adopted later by Seth. There were now four live persons on earth again. Cain was busy building a city for his family of three. It gets extra fuzzy here because there were a few more births and everyone was getting married … I cannot figure out where they came from though? Where they learned to play and make ‘stringed and piped” instruments is a mystery too. They were seemingly forging all kinds of tools out of bronze and iron at the dawn of biblical humanity.

Well, the heavenly observer watched Adam and Eve make love again at age 130 and Seth was born who adopt Enosh at age 235??? Mind you they were polygamists then too, from the very beginning. Now the people began to call him Lord. These numbers are … wrong somehow, but I will get into the blood line later … as best I can. Mind you these people were all cursed and were prevented from eating any fruit of life (remember the swinging sword).

Cain and Abel   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGukKa1vEzA

Damn, I wish I had found this Flintstone clip first!

Lula, if you are happy, then I am happy for you too.

PS - I didn't see your long comment so I will get back to you in the morning.

Circular logic is an amazing self-sustaining trap. You bring things into the play when a need is perceived and then you just work them in as needed pretending that this nonsense was known all along and why … because it is written later in the book. You are somehow capable of understanding to many make believe things after you read about them later in the saga.

A pretty big time jump here (~ 2,500 years or so), and I think you left out a thing or two. We are not even up to the Jews yet and Christianity is still nonexistent???

 

Regarding my comment # 111, it's a lawful spiral argument of which the ends do not meet. 

The argument for the truthfulness that the serpent was the Devil is is not circular but cumulative.  

 

 

Lula, to be fair, the serpent didn't exist at all if the books aren't true.  Since the books CAN be true, that doesn't mean they ARE true.  Since the books have had prophecies in them to show that they are true, that doesn't mean they are totally true.  Just because it's never been wrong doesn't mean it's not true.  See, because if you read it to find wrongs, you can misinterpret it as far away from true as you like, because God is such a foreign concept that we have to use human words and thoughts and actions to try and describe what he does.  So God rests, God asks Adam things (even though he knows the answer, what has happened, and EVEN WHAT ADAM WILL SAY TO HIM IN ANSWER)... but all this is for OUR benefit, our knowledge.  God asked Adam to teach us to fess up to our sins, and more specifically, to give Adam the chance to fess up, instead of just punishing.

Other moments are found throughout the Bible where you could pretend God was stupid or God changed etc. but it's only because the language doesn't really work the way it should - so we should assume, first, that God is perfect and right all the time, and that he knows all.  Going from that perspective, the Bible makes sense in all cases.  Ignoring that and bringing God down to some human level, and the Bible is suddenly rife with contradiction.  It's not the Bible that's wrong, but your impression of God.

I finally figured out that the bible supports evolution much more than one imaginary god … modern Christians have no clue what the original stories of Genesis mean because they have been so bastardized by the Roman/Catholic Church that it bears little of the original meanings of the Jewish composers. For instance, Adam is not the name of a real person at all. Genesis 5-2: “Male and female created He them, and blessed them and called their name Adam in the day when they were created.” … and he named them Adam … humans … mankind. This sure adds some actual understanding as to where all the people came from that were running around marrying and procreating. The story centers around one bloodline which is a Hebrew must. Man as used in Genesis 6-26 is from the Hebrew word “adam” and was never intended to be a proper name (it is a plural noun). Genesis 6-1 is the first place in the bible that actually uses the word “adam” correctly … in the plural sense. There is no wonder why this is nonsense in reference to one man … but Christians just have to have their ‘original sin’ else there could be no downfall …

Those of us that do not believe in god are incapable of thinking god is stupid or any other thing about your construct … it is the people who literally believe that most are referring to. Are you saying that you see no difference between the OT god and the NT god???

There IS no difference.  What I see is neither here nor there.  The Bible is clear they are the same God, therefore, same God.  What's less clear is who exactly that is, but that can be cleared up as well.  Maybe not in a single lifetime though.

Lula, you don't try to prove much other than you believe every mistranslated word in the bible to be infallibly true. When you attempt to talk about something technical, all you do is slander any proof offered or the people offering it. And you just give yourself the permissions you do by looking in your 'fact' book from which everything is a lawful spiral argument ... circular arguments one and all.

Are you saying you don't see a difference between god and corruptible men ... or do you just choose to take offense because you can't help yourself?So the bible is clear on this huh ... enlighten me instead of just telling me it is so.

PS - Who was god talking to in Genesis, particularly before anything supposedly existed at all … except for god? Should we view this as we do when people run around talking to themselves?

What????? 

Of course, the serpent certainly existed...and that truth has no bearing at all on the Books of the Bible. That is to say this truth was known before long before we had the written Books. 

How do we know that then? By God's religion. Man has always had a religion taught by God. Adam and Eve were instructed immediately by God. And Adam handed on to his children the truth about God, what had happened and the duty to worship Him. Thus Abel offered sacrifice...and so forth and so on. 

The handing down of these truths is called Tradition and the traditions were transmitted by Adam's posterity. Later on, God gave revelations to various individuals such as the Patriarchs and this stage is often called the period of the Patriarchal religion or the period of pre-Mosaic  unwritten law. 

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What????? 

To the Catholic, this is utter nonsense. 

One of the central beliefs of Christianity is that God revealed some knowledge about Himself to mankind. We've been given by God a collection of sacred writings; the revelation contained in them is a gift to mankind. Although written by a number of unknown human authors the collection of books has God as the principal Author. The Church teaches that all the books which it accepts as sacred and canonical were written wholly and entirely at the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and the human writers wrote all those things and only those things which God wanted written. 

Therefore, every Book in the Old and New Testament is true and here's how we prove the inerrancy of Scripture.

We'll start by considering the Scriptures for a moment as if they are not inspired. We don't deny their inspiration,  but for the moment we abstract from it, and make no use of it.

We'll subject the books to the same laws of historical criticism that we apply to other books. Scripture proves to be reliable historical documents. Now these historical documents tells us of a certain historical person who declared that He was God, justified that claim by works which no ordinary man could do, and said that He would establish an infallible Church ...a Church that began then, has lived through every age, is here today and will be until the end of the world.

Thus we prove Christ's life and works from historical documents. We prove His divinity from His life and works. We prove the infallible Church from the promise of this divine Person. But we do not yet say that Scripture is inspired, though of course we know that it is.

But our rational grounds for that belief come from the fact that the infallible Church of Christ teaches with her God-given authority that the Bible is inspired and the Word of God, and also tells us which books comprise the Holy Bible.

That the BIble is infinitely superior to the texts of other religions becomes at once apparent. The most rigid criticism shows the historical character of the Bible. Other narratives can't stand this test. The supernatural character of the Holy Bible stands out in vivid contrast when compared with the teachings of other religious documents. The Catholic Church whose very existence today cannot be explained by natural forces, guarantees the Holy Bible as the Word of God.

Nothing in the Blible disproves the fact of its inspiration. 

   

We agree here. 

The account of the creation in Genesis is true though many, many reading it have not fully perceived the true interpretation of every detail given in the account. The problem is that fallible people read it, misinterpret it and thus come to an erroneous understanding of it.

GFTESS's comments are a good example of that. 

But there are other things to consider as well. 

The Bible is not easy to understand, so difficulty is to be expected.  No matter who you are it is difficult to secure the right interpretation of certain passages or to grasp the principles involved, but our difficulty in comprehending everything, avails nothing against the known fact that the Bible is the Word of God, therefore true and inerrant. 

And Almighty God could have prevented each one reading it from mistaking the original sense or else He could have established certain men to teach in His name and finally an infallible Church that could consult in matters of religion. He chose the latter, and never intended Scripture to be the ultimate guide in religious belief or in salvation history.

Men who will not accept the Church and insist on guiding the sense for themselves have only themselves to blame if they end in skepticism.